Session Start: Thu Feb 05 20:46:25 2004 Session Ident: #menzoberranzan * Now talking in #menzoberranzan * Topic is 'Welcome to Menzoberranzan, the City of the Spider Queen, a NWN project' * Set by Sorn on Thu Feb 05 11:13:23 hey you're all here! Hi whoa! I am VERY impressed and glad at the same time... lol.. there is a first time (and probably last) for everything :P even me, the famous "therebutnotthere" lurker no kidding... so you all here for the entire deal? anyone leaving? afk? away? that sort of thig? I'm here I'm about. roll d20 * Dicebot --> "Sorn rolls a d20 and gets 14." * Sorn kicks the dicebot out of the meeting roll d20 * Dicebot --> "Sorn rolls a d20 and gets 11." * Dicebot has quit IRC (Quit: ) roll 10 so that's what that is.. I thought it was Mike lol Nah, just a dicebot I made up for live D&D sessions alright, the bot is off... so who's away? Rizo? lemme check the log... * Sorn sets mode: +o FacelessOne * Sorn sets mode: +o Janus * Sorn sets mode: +o Rizogue * Sorn sets mode: +o Ustalth that's cool now we all have shades I had to reregister the Menzo room i see... * Janus nods how do you register your nick on this server? or can you? type ok, log's working... recording type /nickserv register nickname password email address so type /nickserv register Janus password yadayada#hotmail.com it's only register password email nickname is already implicit type "/nickserv register password email so then how do you login to your nick? type /msg nickserv password so can we start this thing? go for it Face *waiting for the others to confirm* heh.. doesn't silence indicate acceptance? :) go forit (ust?) pss pss... trying to find the agenda psss psss... sorry, computer messed it up, and yes, silence indicates acceptance... Ack, change your colour Ust yeah... Ust, can't read ya with a white bg How about clack? no, black is not better lol Giving me a major headache good, I deleted the agenda... lol... good thing I have it in mind... Ust, got a new color yet? how about this? :) and I supose Rizogue isn't around... but he might be coming so we'll start the meeting he lurks worse than anyone :P *** MEETING STARTS HERE ***** (Jauns, yellow is a no no * Sorn slaps Janus around a bit with a large trout on black it is :) there still can;t read ya on white is even worse I am here. OH there he is! now we can officially start! Everyone use orange now Ustalth has to change his orange color... :) grrr ;) that looks like a girl... >) better smilie alright everyone... welcome This is it, our first official meeting for the actual PW I would like to personally thanks Janus (and Ustalth) for their dedicated time with MH, your work will not be in vain We'll come back to the mod when we are done modeling the cityof the Spider Queen oh... when I have a little more time I'll respond to your questions about moding and the toolset.. it's pretty easy to do Before we start on the agenda, I would like to open the questioning of archiving MH module for now... do you guys have anythig to say regarding that decision? It's really ultimately up to you and Riz.... if we need to then we need to (good boy eh?) ;) I'd say we should still keep it going, we need to give the community something to chew on while we finish Menzo Not me. I know you are eager to get your project under way, and get caught up on your timeline. But either or and you both know my opinion.. I haven't exactly been quiet about it :D but I'm here to help.. so which ever way we need to go.. lets go and have no opinion, as always I agree that having something to show for all this time is important, and that was my initial plan... It's really hard to put away something we invested for over 2 months... i know, but in regards to the timeline, things are getting pretty stiff, I need to show some results... if we start on the modeling of our server and get ahead, we might even be able to come back to MH and finish it can yo guys choose different colors? lol... can you read this? ... But we have deadlines ahead of us that require us to at least begin the process of getting the PW under way. If we can get our hands on some more builders or scripters (dialogue) we can spread our time among the two projects. I suggest we get to the PW and work on it, if we get things rolling fast and more help with the others, we can even maintain the two projects rolling... I've been having loads of fun building it nods and I guess Nalfien/Demona must've had some serious deals in RL, he's gone for a long time... so yeah, opening the project to someone that can dedicate some time and is good at it might be an option so many come and go nods again. yes they do.. but part of that is the lull we've had lately... i think if we start showing progress ppl will be interested in helping out... So what do we do then? I'm certain putting screens out there, news about the project, etc... that was my main goal about putting up the project website... We tease our audience. nods nods. yes we do.. which is exactly my reason for working and finishing MH.. Maybe do something concerning Menzo roleplaying? and I'll keep that website up to date in regards of news and screens and server status, etc... they have the RP boards, and they are dead too.... * Janus nods maybe we need to revive it. even do live RP sessions via the chat I tried to get NWVault to put something up about us.. but Max never responded to me we need something to generate interest and get some folks to help our community isn't the brightest of RPers i must say... there are some I admire (Khali-something, the other girl there, etc) but there are too many that are just there to "roll-play" and they don't seem mature enough I stalled on the contest, but I think I can get that happening in no time. I'd be willing to bring Menzo alive via IRC/chat applet if you wanted. ok, so we need to promote our community... thru events on the board and contests as well as server status and meeting logs, etc... NWVault would definately help us promote the contest. as we found out over the last few months 2 to 3 people can NOT build a module in a short order (sorry was finishing my comment about help) alright, we'll keep working on those separate things in order to get the word out there. I'll do my best regarding the PW to keep the website up to date And by it involving building in the toolset, it could draw some great talent, and get folks talking about us, and working for us at the same time. I mean, between Faceless, myself and Ustalth we knocked a good chunk of MH.. but more help was needed I don't have NWN running so I can't help that way. and more help is needed... Riz do you think you can talk to Maximus and get something on his splash flash on the vault? Sure. I think we can have MH rolling really fast, I just think right now is the time to focus on our deadlines and worry about finishing the mod when we have substantial material about the PW we know that Sorn... but that's ok.. it's not often you have a walking encyclopedia of Drow :D hehehe, is that my official title nowadays? yes it is if he would put something up about us it would do wonders =) LOL sounds good to me I will do that immediately. Sorn is working on the NPCs, getting some sheets figured out, etc... It's a slow process Maximus@vaultnetwork.com I think is his EMail BUT I do have the full doc from that guy Face I had him prepare a list of the NPCs and he found a wonderful website with lots of NPC stats, etc... you got it? wonderful! I saw that site that Sorn provided.. that was pretty accurate there were a couple of things that were incorrect, but very good none the less Sorn -- how big is the doc? in terms of bytes cus you can email me and I'll put it online so we can all cross-reference on it and see how accurate the thing is... I'm still trying to see just how different it is from the online page, but give me a sec and I'll check. Riz, that was right..Maximus@Vaultnetwork.com is his e-mail It's emailable, since Zaran emailed it to me to begin with 250kb damnit Yeah it was a little lacking Janus comp problems again? I have to go I have to check out some other stuff... that too sorry dude There are a lot of NPC's that are going to have to be whipped up from scratch, which isn't a problem. I'll check out the log asap However, we also have the option/ability to create NPC's for various houses as we see fit OK. but it's late over here, and I have to do my non-sleep thing cya all where is over here? east coast * Rizogue waves. * Janus is in central take it easy * Ustalth waves too, and his arm falls off cya * Ustalth has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) ok... at least he was here for a while oh sure.. names are easy to come up as long as you have the sur names right ok, we can get back to promo pieces later then... Orange let's discuss more on the agenda, since we can draw a marketing strategy on the boards later... OK. ok Janus, I got the placeables and the creatures hak form the ftp that's easier to read cool they worked really well (Jan-- darker color) ug I'm glad I was able to eliminate some because Bio remade some of the for me.. which is cool.. less in the hak that way we are going to use those two haks for the PW as well but I wanted to ask if Nalfien submitte dhis shrooms to you yeah he did... they are in there Sweet. I might have forgot to make versions of them in the erf no I didn't.. they are there I'm really impressed by the Custom Demons CODI has done So, what's in the tileset HAK? * Rizogue nods to Janus. ok, I used them, i was just wondering if those were them it's the same one as before.. but it's pretty mucn invalid.. I need to retool it since we are using the underdark tileset k just haven't had time yet so what are the other shrooms that you had before? or didn't we have one before? *shrug* I know of some other customs ones.. but I never used them Question, can you make placable that create sound? I played around with them ....... *thinking* Cyrea pulled the standard shrooms out and put them in an override file. you can apply a sound to a placeable, but nothing like a sound object can.. You can have a sound originate anywhere. what were you thinking in terms of Sorn? shriekers? As in mushrooms that make a sound if you step on them, or get too close I.e. Shriekers yeah :) yeah you can do that actually they are creatures and yes you can we have them already ok then :) I think there is a shrieker monster HAK yah, the fungi critters are in there as well... they are in our creature hak Myconids? the myconids and everything... * Sorn thinks nod yep * Janus fans the smoke away from Sorn :evil: How much Underdark are we planning on creating? OK. I will get you my 3 custome tilesets asap Janus. Sorn: Lots. 3 custom tilesets??? whoa! above what I already have? Janus: I made a dark marbled castle interior, a grey drab one, and a city interior with most of the wood removed and replaced with stone (for obvious reasons.) Reason being, is we need to create the Underdark, as much as we can. No one else is doing this kind of thing We bring the Underdark to life, and we will have succeeded more than just by making Menzo Plus I will be a very very happy boy :P http://204.251.182.252/menzoberranzan/screens/screens.html Sorn: Yes it will definately be made with miles and miles of passages. brb Have we thought about branching out eventually and adding other cities? If we have a large enough server Yes. back good\ Janus: those tilesets are less than perfect (like for releasing purposes) but we can learn to live with the small errors in them, and avoid a few mis-painted tiles. They should be OK for our own use in the PW. i like the 3rd screen best brb so janus, when nalfien sent oyu the shrooms, did he say anything about him being away? oh ok... so MH is archived until we have time to finish it up, that is agreed... as much as it hurts to do that... * Rizogue nods. we need to start thinking Menzoberranzan, and I layed out a rough district map for Qu'ellarz'orl, our first ditrict in Menzo if you havent seen it: Saw it. 3rd is sweet http://www.midiadesign.com/menzo/images/NWN_server_Quellarzorl.jpg That's from Nalfien/Demona's last submission before disappearing. what do you think about those area divisions? (waiting) I'll look at them Riz and see what can be done (I'm back too) There wasn't a fungi farm in that district Face. there is a fungi forest... Only Fungi farming was done on the Isle on the lake. hmmm True, but it's natural I think the South Qu'ellarz'orl should absorb the orange area to the west of it. that's funny... (looking the map) Think of it as a forest in the middle of a walled city the ruling council? Is that whole area supposed to be the council chamber? Janus: OK. no I have a ?.. from the books I've read Menzo is pretty large.. so I'm not sure that one area per color would be sufficient that area would be a separated, patrolled section... the council would be an interior area which we won't make right no now Janus: I made those long ago, because I hated the beige castle interior for Menzoberrranzan, and wood is very hard to find in the underdark, except in the most wealthy areas of the Upper Dark. those are outside areas... and pretty large ones... what do you guys suggest for area division then> ? what's the scale? how so Face? Sorn -- what do you mean? as in area division the module is composed by areas... so we have to slice Menzo around in areas for loading... and spit those areas between our bulding teams... but we need to know exactly how big things are... form your experience, Sorn, how big would Quellarzorl be in terms of miles? The entire city from Donigarten to the West Wall. = 1 mile. (can't find my menzo box... just moved danm...) so MEnzo is a little piece of shit... hence the areas being small... * Rizogue nods. Janus -- agreed? I think they will be OK, since that is only one of the 8 districts (minus Tier Breche). So each area from my point of view, would have about 12x12 or 16x16 or any other combination with those numbers in terms of the toolset OK. right? On a similar point... Yeah It's not huge, but by Underdark perspective, it's a massive city unless the area is, for instance, the special "ruling council" area I put separate... that is probably about 10 x 5 * Eben has joined #menzoberranzan vendui eben During your MH building, did we have a set area size? Sorn -- I'll change the name from farm to forest then and update the map version... Hi I found Eben harrassing some foreigners in a sex chat, and told him he better hurry by. Yeh Rizo -- not really, I tried to keep the guidelines that I wrote, but the areas I put together were medium-large sizes... about 12x8... those foreigners.... mmm mmm MMM! so Janus, you there? I wanted to suggest having them all be standard-sized, so they would line up like sheets of graph paper, corner-to-corner. I am now * Janus is reading again.. sorry That way overlapping would be impossible, and area transitions would be lined up to the corresponding area. that will be hard to achieve... unless you want me to lay out a 12x12 grid on the city map... Not for the city, but for the underdark tunnels. what Riz suggests is my suggested method too how big do we want the areas then? you honestly don't want an area over 20x16 (that's the largest I make) since the whole city is a mile wide... fpr tje Imderdarl? the load times start to suck when you get bigger than that hehehe For the Underdark? For the city, it will depend, but we need to set a height for each area. a height? like a vertical height? I think if we get areas by district, we can have them done pretty easily... Yes. or 16x16 for instance? Highest point is about 1000 feet it's difficult to duplicate height transitions in one area I haven't had a lot of luck with raising the terrain in the underdark set anyway No. Not vertical. Like legnth. oh.. like 16x16 IC Yes. I'd suggest staying around 16x16 *Shrugs So the entire Quel would be 20 * 60 for instance. i see what you mean... like areas ina certain district need to be so much big well from the map.. some of those areas could have multiple areas in them.. ok, that's exactly the point i wanted to discuss so we can split up area designs think about how large a 16x16 area is.. it's not all that big Right, so the total legnth of each area needs to be broken up. nod we don't have to get that precise... 16x16 is 256 squares But, we want to avoid any possible (impossible...) overlapping areas doe to misplaced area transitions. what do you mean onverlapping? you can mask that though for instance.. in MH, I have one area transition in the upper right corner of an area.. but the trans on the other side is in the middle.. but you can't really tell OK... back to a point sorn was making.. we want to be sure to really make menzo and the underdark come to life... but to do that we need the special buildings.. and to some extent the Yochlol I don't expect anyone else to attempt it but we need them Since we are going by a map for the city interior, we are eliminating some of the chance of overlapping, but if we were to just create areas, and not take into consideration the dimensions and placement of the other areas, it is ver possible to have transitions where the corresponding areas have places that are in what should be the same geographic loaction if you were to lay it out on a map. This is an example of how to build an area according to me: there is Central Quel... there are transitions to Fungi North (to the north), Fungi South (to the West), South Quel (South), and Castle Baenre (SE), and also House Xorlarrin and key #1... * Sorn sets mode: +o Eben Central Quel is 1/4 of the total area size, so it's an 8 x 8 area there is no overlapping in that... if the area designer keeps the geography and the look of that area in the map the same way int he toolset create an 8x8 area and see if it looks large enough... no it doesn't.... there is a balancing act to this.. you have to create an area that's not to small but not to small... that's what I thought too but if we're going with the measuring... we should be able to create an 8x8 or 10x10... estimating how big that area would be... I don't think we can really do the meansuring thing though.. at least in my opinion Right, like I said, since we are using a map, it will be easier to avoid overlapping, but it is still possible and should be carefully considered. For the underdark, if we have people laying down areas of different sizes without them being "corner to corner" we increase the possibility. or we re-divide the areas in Quellarzorl and make the whoel district in two areas... That is why I initially asked about how we did it for MH. this is true... MH was a linear module that's why I suggested that I be given all the areas for MH when complete so I could match up the transitions meaning there was only one way to follow all the other ones were dead-ends But it can still overlap. Janus -- you can have 'em =) :P but with me taking the areas and making sure they matched up, if they didn't I'd be sure to let the creator now and let them fix it :evil: It's hard to explain, but I have seen some decent modules that gave you the feeling that they contradicted themselves due to the fact that I was paying attention to my relative location as I moved around. I drew a map of what I thought the MH module would look like... I can scan it for you if you want to see it... I know what oyu mean I see your point Riz I do that too lol Like saying to yourself: "I just went east, then south, then west, and then north, but I am not back where I started, what's going on here?" but if we keep in mind the map size we can easily locate us around... but I'm very detail oriented so I pick things apart Me too. me too in my opinion.... And I expect dust free, error-proof perfection. (peeky eh? lol) * Janus picks up his trout and looks at Riz rof And the graphics artist is soooo lawst they say if you want something done right you have to do it your self :) slappin' time... lol Touche'! seriously. when I was building my world I had it laid out on paper so I made sure the areas matched up