Session Start: Sat Mar 13 19:18:38 2004 Session Ident: #menzoberranzan * Now talking in #menzoberranzan * ChanServ sets mode: +ntr * ChanServ changes topic to 'Welcome to Menzoberranzan, the City of the Spider Queen, a NWN project. (Sorn)' * ChanServ sets mode: -ahoq FacelessOne FacelessOne FacelessOne FacelessOne Session Close: Sat Mar 13 19:23:13 2004 Session Start: Sat Mar 13 21:55:14 2004 Session Ident: #menzoberranzan * Now talking in #menzoberranzan * Topic is 'Welcome to Menzoberranzan, the City of the Spider Queen, a NWN project.' * Set by Sorn on Tue Mar 09 19:55:47 * Sorn sets mode: +o FacelessOne * Ustalth has joined #menzoberranzan * Sorn sets mode: +o Rizogue * Sorn sets mode: +o Nalfien * Sorn sets mode: +o Ustalth hey Ustalth made it! Woohoo! Woo! lemme check the log see if we're recording... We all here? Ah. Blue Help me Face, I forget how to Log all good Guess we need Lod, Janus and Eben Janus said he would have to leave... Lod said he would be around... There's still a couple of minutes left, have patience. don't know about eben Eben and Janus are both set to away in my MSN. I sent them both IMs k Mikayla may drop in as well. cool sounds good ok... everyone here staying til the end? no "i need to take care of the kids"? I may have some afks, but the kid is sleeping. I'm here till 12:15, and I sure as hell hope that's the end. Wife is not. :D hehe Shall we get the show underway then? Lets do I took an injury earlier today, so I might fall on the floor. Could be a short afk. Yes, start. Then without further adieu.. sorn, ust 1. Player Applications. choose different colors Player Applications are evil. Lets do approved characters instead. Any better? hmm if what you see is black, not my fault, blame it on mirc That means letting anyone join our project, but before they make an in game character, they have to post a bio for that character and we have to approve it first. we see white, Ustalth You see white too from me? How about this? Yes. White black both o' ya Both still white to me ... bah, it is black for me. Blame it on mirc. one of you can get a pink... It's black for me too the menzo chat background is black, it probably wont allow black on black any better? black... lol, forget it... still white White to me. If you see a difference, good, if not, I can't do anything. Heh *sighs* Ok, anyways. (listen) Player applications are to ALFA Nazish ALFA got a bad rap for doing real applications. I like Nalfien's idea concerning applications. Character applications are better, yes to build on it, It worked out really well at WoC I wish Janus was here, he knows avlis server, I think they have player apps and it works... Everyone who was denied get mad and slandered the project every chance they could. maybe we have the player's start of rping in the IC Forums, from there if they show promise we bring them into the server? Their first scores at NWVault were very poor. I dont like that Idea That could cause problems. People won't like having to write big long posts (sarcasm). just a thought. I don't think we could follow everyone's writing capabilities on the board. Plus, writing capabilities could be different from rping capabilities. well I know this probably sounds bad, but do we want the people who can't put the effort into their character/rp to begin with? I think those people on the boards that show a lot of tallent should be rewared though. if they aren't willing to put the effort in? Yes, that I agree with. In WoC I RPed 100 percent in game and only wrote on the board what happened in game Well, some people may not have good enough english skills to write good posts. how would a system of "character development" work, Nalfien? good question instead of char application did you read my post for Venemi? yes but for the log... the log is what Im talking about thats where the character development happened this chat log things furthered my character in the game and I wrote it in the log oh if you could explain it again... I think he means sum up the theory behind the character approval procedure you're talking about. Nods well, the first post I posted was Ven's character description in the unapproved character board after it was approved I made the character on the server then after something interesting happned that furthered my character's story i would post a reply to my character bio telling the story unapproved is bad wording, i'd suggest if we use it, we call it "pending" characters, or something like that So is the password private until you have an accepted character? Good call, Faceless. no you get the password if you register on the board So getting your character accepted was optional, or what? i would like to give passwords for those approved chars... nods Or at least some bonus for having written a bio. nope, if you just make a character without gettting it approved first you are warned. if caught again, you are banned Ah I never saw anyone break the rule I thought that might be the case. or we can just give the pasword afterwards... I was thinking of creating a Forum Group of Forum IDs that have accepted characters, that will then open up new private Player Forums with login instructions and PWs. They probably got over trying in the first few weeks, but trust me, they did try. We could give each player a thread, to post too and add too. What happens with regard to the forums is, after all, your call, Rizogue. but for what it's worth, I agree. so no player app then, instead a "character development" area, with "pending approvals" and "approved characters" who's going to call those approvals? That should weed out power players even better than player apps. I can set up a forum called Pending Characters. In there, only registered users can post, and only moderators can reply to existing posts... I can at least help with that, if you're willing to let me I got my bio approved in 3 days I can do that, as a DM not a long wait especially compared to ALFA These posts would include Character Descriptions. Once approved, the post moves to a private Players Forum, where only approved players can view it. that brings me to the only problem i see in this... privacy It also need to have their player ID Metagaming? yep not to worry my whole character was public, but people just didnt use the info in game maybe i want to create a follower of vhaeraun inside a noble house or guild... it never spoiled my fun by telling my story well, that you would keep to yourself and the acceptance inside a guild was based on this info well, that i would have to tell the DM when I submit my character you dont have to tell everything about your character. I can move the Approved Topics into a DM only forum, that way we can refer to it to see who is playing what role, etc. Yeah, some things would most definately have to be secrets. in this example, let's say I'm an assassin... and start killing my own guild members... Then other PCs will only see the description until approved. that would definitely be considered PKing, but the DM knows the truth about that char... if you post something like that publicly, you will never be accepted in John's guild if you intend to kill everuone Maybe we can have PC viewable forum, and a DM viewable forum for each char/ that's not possible not viable for each player well I ment a forum for PC's and one for DM's. But pc's get individual threads in each Well, Face, bios up to the point of the PW start are a good way around player apps, but perhaps you do make a good point in that consistant histories are possibly a bad idea, or at least needs some considering... So that PC's can see stuff about the PC, but the DM can also know stuff private about the PC (kill the perhaps in the last sentence, you make a really good point) you dont have to post your ongoing history in public What about this...? so how much detail goes into this "char dev" post? and how much do we need to know about a character to say "yes"? We have a public forum for players to post their Characters... Lod logged in We then move the post into a private DM forum for consideration... Just get thier Gamespy ID and expected class and race if they have a character that is just basic or better, let them in Then once Approved, we can grant access to a Players Only section for them to write a public introduction to their character... if they sound like a tard and in their bio they slay a thousand illithid, tell them sorry If they do that, sorry would not be the word I would use Riz, I think the bio should be public from the start it shows applicants what accepted bios need to look like * Lodrezzon has joined #menzoberranzan we're starting level 1 PCs right? its a great way for people to know who is on the server I'd say yes Yes please If it starts in a public forum anyways, why move it to private? so no 1,000 illithids then... I agree. Id start from 1 Hi Lod! Evening gents Hi, ubertilesetcreatergod. are we capping the levels at 20 or 40? hordes gives us up to 40 right? Glad to do my part for the filth and slime of the Underdark I'd say go for 40 40 definately I'd say 40, since the big disappointment in mmorpgs like EQ was hitting the level barrier too quickly And I hit 60 in a week... God Bless you Ust.... fuck I'd say we move it because the application may have info the Player doesn't want everyone to know, but wants the DMs approving Characters to have access to when deciding the fate of the character. heh too me 2 years to get to 40 then I quit If you can do 60 in a week... you are INSANE I played...kinda...day and night I did 50 in 14 days, but that was playing 20 hours a day then what's the difference between submitting a bio and this private subscription? but my skin has returned to normal, and Rizogue, if it starts in the public forum, then people would see it anyways But it won't be there permanantly. Maybe PMing it to a DM? well Why not? I like the idea of getting a feedback fromt he DMs right away, talking about things, etc... People would see it. Are you talking about keeping the tileset in a private site ownload? player apps... No. No, the player applications (I hope) Player app process. Ahh,,, i see They can just get a character approval with a little info and take it from there. We dont have to know everything they are planning to do once their in game. i'll send you the log so far, hold on I saw this method work beautifully in WoC. I wouln't change a thing about it. Tough topic... Sorry about the big Avatar pic before, its been put through the wash cycle a few times and has been shrunk to size It might be different for us, depending on who visits the sites that link to us such as CODI and NWvault PLENTY of powergamers live in the NWvault. (and by that, I also mean people without scruples) Hey Faceless, whats your thoughts on this whole database tie in thing. Will it have any affect on player approval? Nalf, but it's Menzoberranzan... it's a place where you'll have people killing people as a norm We don't want to be too Elitist, but we don't want Metagaming problems, which is why I proposed what I did. you would WANT your character secret hmm *ponders a moment Well, Riz, the only problem I see with that, is what Face just said Are we programming a loy of static quests, or doing a more LIVE DM feel.. I know there was some discussion about that before? Again, perhaps a PM or email. we'll be talking about that later on tonight Lod Live DM feel I hope K Which thing Face just saidm Ust? And include a template for a bio no matter what, please. will a little of column A worked in Keeping your char secret. Nalf -- about database, don't know if it has anything to do with player approval... don't understand your question That's why we all moderate that forum, and move any posts in there to a private pool of Character Concepts for consideration. I change my mind. I agree with the public then private. We would have to move it fast, otherwise wouldn't people see others' secrets in the app? is it private -- for DMs only or DMs and players? The original app becomes DM only. Well hell, we could just have them PM it to one of us That's what I say too. then we just copy it to the DM fourm Then once approved, they can put a brief intro to the Players Only Forum. PMs or emails. PMs are limited... in size So emails. Are we talking about player screening right now? Yes ok, there is an option of posting to a moderated forum, the post would only appear if allowed by a moderator... Ahh... making a RP server basically. Speaking as a person who always gets at least 75 emails a day, I can handle the copy pasting to the forum, if you want. the moderator could get the post, copy-paste into a DM-only place, and voi-la Face just hit gold sweet idea dude nods I'm not quite sure I get it. I think I do though, posts are invisible to all but poster and DMs? until moved yea Ah have a forum that is moderated only, like the news forum, you post but your post goes to a moderator before it's public that's not gold, that's like pure platinum. When you attempt ot log-on, is there a DM approval option while the DM is in game? ( Sorry I haven't played before) nope im not sure how WoC enforced that just by a manual list I suppose And by checking the ingame playerlist constantly. by gamespy ID So is the point that we approve the player first, then have the module Passwrod controlled? yep Gotcha I don't think there is a way to set a furm that way, Face... there is... forums are full moderated... you are free to post, but only after the mod approves the post, it goes public Ah works for the news posts If that's possible, Rizogue, definately the way to go. That's because you can't post stick in there. sticky. hmmm I have that set where Mods and Admins can post and do sticky/announcements, but registered users can only reply to existing threads. There is no period where the post is pending approval. there is an option in phpBB that sets posts as *PRIV* I think that's the one I'm talking about Hi, your bio is approved and you have access to the forum where the password is. * Sorn sets mode: +o Lodrezzon Priv means only people on a select list can view, or post, or whatever. I think it's a fine option. God knows I gave 5000 hours played on EQ because of ANYONE could get into the game. Private screening through a public forum won't solve the problem of the kids who are smart enough to lie their way in, but if I am a live DM, feel free to spend hours making their lives living hell >:O Like when you had your Brazillian games going. I had to add people to your Private list for that forum for them to see it... I could have made anyone see it, and only them post, but I don't have a system that works like you're intending. How many forums can you control through Gamespy? Or are we talking through Menzo.net? Menzo.net Through Menzo, I think. afk hmmm, so there isn't an option for moderated forums then? i've always thought there were... Okie doke... So you're looking at a public character application forum, which will be handed off to a private approved forum which will then forward the password to the new player, if I understand it correctly I think that's what they're at Lod the password would be handed by a DM doesn't have to be automated better if it is Rizogue I got it Once approved, they get access to the fourms where the server info, module password and other fourms make a thread that you can post topics, but can't view them so REG can post, but only MOD can view Impossible. If we do that, we might be bombarded with repeat apps, since people will think they didn't actually submit it. As I'm not sure what kind of traffic you will be handling through the server, I think the idea of having post a character idea on a public forum, and then having them wait for e-mail approval will deter many of the "gotta play it now idiots out there". Most of the bad power gamers won't be able to handle an approval time of longer than 10 minutes tops. If you are building an RP based server community, then a 24 hour turnaround t You must be able to view to post. View means to see the forum at all, like the DM forums. Regs and Guests don't see them at all in the forum list. No for view to be Mod, nobody will see the forum at all. Ust... I think that will happen anyway with any public forum posting. God knows I get a ton of mutiple posts at my vault pages. Im sure spam will be the order of the day whateever precautions you may try... unless application proceddure is only done with a live moderator wow, the blue and red text is freaking me out. looks 3d I took all this into consideration when making my proposal. ok... i guess you can't do what i wanted... tried and rizogue is right... I think if we have everybody (all of us) moderating that forum when we see posts in it, chances of anyone spying on it to make notes of folks' alignments or affiliations is slim. email could work best... It is much more likely when they stay public, but if we prune it daily, they will only be public for a very short time. * Sorn nods make an HTML form and on submit, sends to a database... the data is then transferred into a post... And if on the off chance that someone does "powergame" we can handle it later on down the road Yes, and I think that the people who are likely to take advantage of other's bios would be too lazy to try to remember char names, races, etc. Rizo, pruning is a good idea "handle" it =) what does it mean, deleting the post? deletes after 24 h? sounds good Face don't know what the pruning actually does Moving it. Manually. I agree, when a player posts a character bio in a forum, that is their "guideline" for the character. I doubt even the DMs will be able to keep PC storylines in memory. Whatever one person writes will be forgotten in 24 hours easily, as thier character will develop online. Even if the app is posted publically for 3 days, no one will really care, as most players are worried about their character, and not what other people are doi If we are all mods of the forum, we can just move them private when we come online. nods are we bouncing them back to that forum if not approved? You guys are going through the exact thought process I went through on this topic, just.... slower. :D because then we can just leave that forum as "pending" No, just deleting if they are insane or otherwise unacceptable. Should we tell them why it wasn't approved? or even bounce it to an "unapproved" public bin so ppl have examples of unapproved chars Sure. It always take 10x as long to think whenever you add another person. im just trying to play catch-up. So I babble in red.... Make it a viewable by all registered, but reply and post reserved to mods. Then we could put in a short expanation of the rejection, and suggestions for future proposals. Yeah Not giving them a reason would only cut us off at the legs ok... so we're talking about 3 topics in one forum -- Approved (DMs only) Pending and Unapproved Like" You suck Douche Bag,,, I hear Aheron's Call is looking for players like you"? Some may not even make it to the unapproved forum, but just be deleted, to show their app wasn't even worth a response (for munchkin/insane/illitid-slayers/etc. so did we finish with tihs topic then? No. Three forums. Not three topics. Sounds good Riz. Character Concepts. Yeah Yeah We moving on to the next topic for tonight? One last question... Im assuming the forums are open.... Would player approval come from the first one of us to log on and go through the list of possible applications, or is any one person assigned to making those decisions? Private Pending Character Forum. Unapproved Characters. We can just each posts our opinions on the apps privately. sounds good Gotcha... In Character Concepts, have stickies with templates Then when a consensus is reached, we make a group decision. and rules, perhaps. nods Nalf, approved? sure Nalf doesn't sound convinced... we can have a "stories" forum if a player wants to write their journal, etc... Sure. Eh, he might be like me...unopinionated... yeah, he's too quiet eh We will have a forum for all players who have approved characters. I dunno Heh, that's me in rl ARE YOU MY LONG-LOST CLONE?!?!?!?!? j/k A private forum Riz? Its starting to be an ALFA like player screen why is it? but if its public we are worried about metagaming He may be right. but metagaming was never a problem in WoC I think it has a different "air" than ALFA's but WoC wasnt drow I mean, it's the same process as the other one, you can argue with the DM if your char is unapproved, we'll point out stuff to be corrected... but you didn't have to tell everything ALFA had the impression of the player being declined. and there's the secrecy I would like to maintain ina drow server... you don't know the other guy, he might be tough, he might be another noob I only have about 15 minutes, just so you know. Here, since we are appriving "character concepts", it just seems less personal when they are not approved. One thing though... I've been a roleplayer for 20+ years. If a server sounds too"controlled", it can turn a lot of the better players off. A pretentious "world" can ne your undoing. You have to make sure it feels comfortable for new players to join, or you only get hardcore bastards with good writing skills playing the game and it's going to be one char per player? or as many chars approved as the player submits? There should be a limit. I'd suggest one char at a time Face If a character dies ultimately they can create another one (without submitting again) Or perhaps you have to reach a certain level in your first character. True